Great topic! I have lots that I would like to add, but it would be nice to hear from people first. What are your experiences and mindset towards learning to suspend? Also, from the bottom's point of view.

Hi Kinbaku Panda, Regarding your question, yes there are many safety aspects that we need to pay careful attention to, and trying to remember them all can feel like a daunting task. How long have you been tying for? My advice is to train and practice at a sensible pace, and don't aim for suspension too early on in your journey. Focus on the chest harness and learning the correct placement and tensions of the wraps (upper and lower) until you feel comfortable that you can practice this safely before concerning yourself with the rest of the body. One step at a time. There are many good resources online which focus on nerve placement and where to avoid in the upper (and lower) extremities. Having a good mentor/teacher who can offer you personal instruction and correct you is strongly advised. In regards to the armpits, I think that this area should be avoided completely and discourage the use of cinches (kannuki) for the upper wraps of the chest harness due to safety risks.

Hi Kinbaku Panda. Thank you for your question. Definitly a great and neccessary topic. I will reply to you shortly (it's currently 3am here). In the meantime, if anyone else here has some thoughts please feel free to share.

Darkly_Dreaming I am really happy to hear you can find benefits in this approach. Yes, while there are more and more kinbaku "workshops" being held in Japan these days this is quite new phenomenon. I also have noticed, from my own perspective only, that Japanese kinbaku-shi tend to acquiesce the direct instruction approach and adapt when teaching to a Western audience. Within the more traditional approach there is more of a focus on training the heart/mind, and on honor, humility and respect. The thinking behind this, from my understanding, is that once you can demonstrate this, then you are ready to receive and apply the knowledge.

Bruce Esinem has put together some easy-to-read and reasonably comprehensive materials which are available on his site:  https://ropestudy.com/nerves  https://www.shibariclasses.com/courses/shibari_1/lectures/110914 A physician friend recently recommended the following medical resources for learning anatomy. These are delving more into anatomy for medical purposes, and are not focused on kinbaku related areas. But if you are keen to improve your overall knowledge at the same time, it could be useful. To be honest I haven't purchased these yet (but intend to shortly). Netter's Atlas of Human Anatomy textbook and flashcards, and anatomy coloring books as a study aid. (https://www.amazon.com/Netters-Anatomy-Coloring-Updated-Science/dp/0323545033) and the Kapit-Elson book (https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Coloring-Book-Wynn-Kapit/dp/0321832019). Another site, that my friend put me onto, which I find quite useful is: www.zygotebody.com

That's an interesting to topic to bring up. I am of similar thinking to @Dan T in that I can reap enjoyment from providing someone with an experience. It is also quite humbling in a way. Deep connective and 'seme' rope is great, and what I do a lot of, but sometimes just goofing around or simply providing an experience can be fun. @Ombre Anatkh I find that people who are simply curious will also tend to me very nervous and tense. Think back to your first experience. Sometimes, keeping it light and making them laugh will work. In other cases, adding a blindfold or something that can help them shut out the outside world and relax to the ropes is more effective. If their bodies are tense it can be very difficult to tie, so helping them to relax and ALSO having fun yourself is important, I think.

Yes, that is the beauty!

I agree. But I think that in the end it should be whichever method the person tying feels the most comfortable with. If doing a tie that you don't feel comfortable with, then it is very difficult to make the person you're tying feel safe and able to let go. Of course, if you feel equally comfortable with both, then you can adapt to the person you are tying.

@Darkly_Dreaming Agreed!

Just the other day I tied a girl, who started literally shaking before I had even finished the first top two wraps. It was quite difficult and I had to concentrate a lot to get the tensions of the rope exact while also holding her body from falling around. I actually pushed her head down and distanced myself ever slightly to detract some of the arousal until I had the initial wraps in place and under even tension. In this case I also held her head and instructed her to look into my eyes, which helped keep her focused on me rather than abandon herself to physical sensations. It really does depend on the person.

This is something that I have discussed with many people in the kinbaku world here in Japan, and yet have to find a decisive answer. So, I am really glad you asked this question. My conclusion, based on my interpretation of these conversations and my own observation and experience, is that they are structurally on par with each other, provided the tension is even across the entire chest area and on the left and right sides. The key differences are areas of difficulty in tying and how it feels for the person being tied. So it really comes down to preference I think. 1. Two wraps and then lock-off This one requires you to tie the first wrap very loosely and then tie the second-wrap tighter in order to achieve even tension and get the knot to finish in the center of the back in one movement. This requires lot of practice and finesse to get right. Many people are taught to tie it off center and then adjust afterwards. I advise against this for following three key reasons. 1) When you adjust back to center the stem (rope connecting wrists to upper wraps vertically) loosens, changing the tension on the wrists and allowing them to drop too low 2) There is higher risk of slight twisting of the skin on the surface which is uncomfortable 3) Can feel rough for the being tied. Based on discussions with people, as the ropes start somewhat loose and are pulled tight in one swift fluid movement it feels more spontaneous and bounding for the person being tied. Of course this is subjective. Some people prefer the continuous direction of this method. *Note: There will always be slightly more tension on the side that you begin tying on. When adjusting the tensions (after locking off) always start from the opposite side. i.e. adjust from left to right. And, then adjust again on both sides from the center. 2. Wrap back method This requires wrapping in one direction, achieving the tension with a semi-lock off (wrap-back), then wrapping the second-wrap at the same tension as the first, and then locking off in the center. A lot of people find this easier to achieve even tension while also getting the knot in the center. While it appears a lot easier to tie, and is in many aspects, the rope can tend to sit on the skin rather than sit into or sink into the skin if your rope handling with your wraps hasn't been refined. There are some very subtle movements when wrapping the ropes that can help the rope to sit into the skin. This helps to prevent the rope from slipping which in turn mitigates any slight changes in the tension throughout the session. The tension is also decided on the first wrap so there is less of a sense of spontaneity. Like you said visual beauty and functionality are difficult to balance here. My suggestion is to tie what feels good for you. But remember that there is more to the second wrap-back method than is often taught or meets the eye. I hope this helps. Also I would love to hear some other peoples' thoughts and opinions on this matter as well. Opinions from the people who enjoy being tied would also be interesting to hear. Which one feels better to you? And why?

Thank you for sharing. While communication through rope does not require words, it’s really nice to such thoughts in words too. Despite my years practicing kinbaku, or perhaps due to years practicing kinbaku, I find it very difficult to encapsulate what I feel in written and verbal mode of expression. I think that -“It can also make people feel loved, and special, I think” - is something that can be felt from both the person tying and the person being tied. As a person tying, the energy and also the acceptance and trust that the person in my ropes gives to me touches many emotions on differing levels. So many things that are rarely said in words are communicated. At this point the only other person that exists in the person I am tying, and when that person shows the same to me, even if without words or gestures, it is very special. I love that precise moment when the person I am tying completely let’s go. It can be a slight change in facial expression or the tension held in the muscles of the body. That is what drives me when tying (or untying) I guess. I mentioned untying because often this is the ‘icing on the cake’ so to speak. It is sensual, exciting, and at times spontaneous.

Hi Mark Great observation, and great question. To be honest I do not know the formal names of each specific knot so it’s hard to answer your questions in that regards. The first knot which you referred to as possibly a granny or reef knot is a lot faster and easier to tie. However, it is also prone to collapse making it less secure. I try to limit using this knot with the exceptions of where the tie is temporary, as in I plan to release it shortly or a minor collapse would not cause any major issues. The knot which I use on the back of the TK for the wrists is a lot more secure and can be pulled in either direction without collapsing. It is also quick release which makes it ideal for situations where there is limited chance of an accidental pull (accidental release). I use a non-quick release variation of this knot (instead of creating a loop I pull it straight through) for ankle cuffs/suspension lines and other cuffs which are in a position that could be in danger of getting hooked or accidentally pulled. This is recommended for wrist/ankle cuffs which may be prone to collapse due to later added load or even just the person struggling in the moment. All in all, the later is ideal, albeit more fiddly to tie and get the tensions correct. I hope this answered your question. If not please feel free to say so, and I will try to be more specific. - Milla

Hi Mark, I think we discussed this briefly via email. Hopefully we can get some opinions and ideas from others here in the forum as well. From my side, First of all, having the flexibility to abandon what you had planned and go with the flow is a great attitude and skill to possess. I also have sessions where nothing seems to go as planned. Sometimes you can easily adapt the tie slightly and things start to move in direction you hoped for. And, other times, you adapt and adapt, somehow end up ‘painting yourself into a corner’ so to speak. When this happens, I often completely untie, ensuring that the untying is also part of the ‘play.’ (sometime the untying even becomes the most enjoyable part of the session). And then start again with either the same tie, or something completely different. Having to untie, doesn’t mean ‘failure’ nor that the session needs to end. Of course, this also requires having a larger ‘toolbox’ (or ‘go to’ ties) as well as knowledge/skills on how to apply the rope on the body (regardless of the tie) so that it doesn’t slip. For example, if tying the calves, always ensure that that top rope sits above and calf muscle and sits into the skin, so as to prevent it from slipping down. Being able to look at the body and muscle contours and adjust the ties to work with the body is the key. This does just take practice though. As we discussed briefly via email, adding an element of predicament play can also be exciting and help with keeping your partner present and active by counteracting the arousal/pleasure with some slight discomfort while adding a different element to the session. This could be something as simple as tying the hair as attaching to a point above you (as this is not a suspension line, a solid light fixture may even suffice), or having your wife kneel on something hard or uncomfortable. DM discourse such as ordering your wife to hold something in her mouth, or stand up straight (if standing) may also work, and add another element at the same time. -Milla